| Author |
 Topic  |
|
fehler
Starting Member
15 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 05:26:43
|
You've dreamed about the scenes you want to see. Now temper that with the realization that not every detail can or should make the big screen. Not even Peter Jackson included every last hobbit bit in Lord of the Rings. There is room for some slight "adjustments" to move the story along, what would you do?
I'll start with an easy one: I wouldn't include Elistan, Riverwind or Goldmoon in the second or third movies, except possibly having them appear in cameos at the Whitestone Council. Elistan can go with the refugees to Thorbardin, RW+GM can go search for any surviving plainsmen that escaped. Or something.
Next a harder one: I would skip that whole "Draconian dies and turns to stone". I find that after the first few times it happened, the heros ignored it and so did I. I'm sure it was a neat trick for a dungeon master to pull on a party of adventurers, but a mainstream audience wouldn't get it and I don't think it would add much to a movie. |
|
|
tonkatough
Member
Australia
561 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 11:17:44
|
Elistan! he's about as useless as Tom Bombadil and knocks Goldmoon from centre stage.
Over population it the biggest problem with story. Kick out Fewmaster Toede, Forestmaster, centaurs, Eben, Sestun, Theros that silver armed metal smith. ( I don't even know why he is even in the story. Why did they have to build Dragonlance from scratch. I feel it would have been more interesting and made the dragonlance more precious and mystical and mysterious if after each historical Dragonwar the heros that fight with the Dragonlances at that time return the lances to some secret cache for future generations to use during future dragon wars. Silver arms and magical dwarven hammers is unecessery and convoluted)
Darkenwood.
The return to Solace where it is burnt to the ground. Why not just have characters captured at Xas Tasroth, caged and taken staight to Verminnard but are rescued by qulinesti elves.
All you need of for hint at fate of Solace is quick flash back when Gilanthas relate his story to what happened to him and elves when tied to stake and breathed on by a red dragon.
Ouch.
tonkatough |
 |
|
|
fehler
Starting Member
15 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 19:46:47
|
I like Toede. He makes a great low-level thug for the heros to deal with in the beginning.
The escape from Solace needs tweeking to move the story along. For the companions, I'd have Sturm bring Riverwind/Goldmoon into the group, saying he rescued them on the road from being accosted by Draconians. They have the staff, but all they know is that it glows blue in the presance of Draconians, but Riverwind doesn't remember how he got it. Toede and Drac. henchmen enter the Inn, Fizban points them out in the corner, the staff glows, barfight, Sturm is wounded/poisoned and RW/GM aren't leaving him. Toede runs and sounds the alarm. The city sealed off, they escape across the lake to Drakenwood (no "enchantment",) Sturm sees the whitestag/Forestmaster in a haze, everyone thinks he's delusional, but then the Forestmaster appears, shows them how to use the staff to heal Sturm. They're not safe in the woods, so they argue bringing the staff to the High Seekers in Haven (through the guarded/occupied road), or taking the Forestmaster's advice and finding their answers in Xak Tsaroth. No Unicorns, centaurs, spectral minions, and no pegasi (the Forestmaster has deere they can ride on the ground.) I want to keep these areas close together, and I would like their first flight on the Griffons/Dragons to be more thrilling/exciting for them.
I'd keep Elistan and Hedrick for a scene with Verminard, where he's testing their metal and looking for Bremen. Hedrick can betray the hero's escape plot, but Verminard can squish him comicly if he denies the old gods. V will have some respect for Elistan, as a strong man who lost his faith, and try to recruit him to the power of Takhasis (the queen is a seductress, after all). Keep Theros, if only as a way to humanize Gilthanis to the human's plight, and to demonstrate Goldmoon's power to the Qualinesti (however, I wouldn't give him his silver arm until they reach the tomb of Huma, and that should be the only tool needed to make the Dragonlance).
And since I can't remember Ebon or Sestun, I'm guessing they're unimportant to the plot.
The destruction of Solace is interesting, as is the destruction of the Que Shu. Where/how do you trim these important yet repetitive scenes? I would say that Solace is more important, since the audience will get a "before" and "after" view. But Que Shu is needed to strenghten RW+GM, to show why they were driven off (the villagers knew the crystal staff would bring their destruction).
Then again, maybe a dream-sequence telling is appropriate for Solace, since such a montage will be needed at other places, such as Gilthanas telling of the desent into Neraka, Raistlin skimming over the events between Silvanesti and Flotsam, Flint overviewing how Laurana won victory after victory as the Golden General, and Bremen describing how he got the green gemstone. The first movie, of course, needs to start with Fizban in the bar telling the story of the Kingpriest, with various children and townspeople interjecting that it was the gods that abanonded them, and Fizban interecting that it was the people who turned away from the gods. But I'd prefer to have the movie start with Tanis, meeting Flint and Tas on the road to Solace, and the three entering Solace together. |
|
|
|
Haralion
Member
Canada
959 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2006 : 05:08:38
|
i'm sorry if i disagree with most of what you guys said, short of Elistan. I agree that his presence in the story is irrelevent and does steal some of Goldmoon'S thunder. I would scratch him out, or simply not include him in the storyline.....just make him as Hederick and nothing more than that. But don't leave out Darkenwood, if it's imperative than i say you leave for the dvd version...but that would be bad....i certainly would cut the whole part with
the sea elves, or maybe leave that one also for dvd, that scene doesn't move the story forward and you don't want the third installment to have slow rythmn you want it full throttle!!!! Even some of the scenes where they do that show after Silvanesti....
"Pain is temporary, film is forever" , Peter Jackson |
|
|
|
Haralion
Member
Canada
959 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2006 : 05:09:54
|
sorry second installment....
"Pain is temporary, film is forever" , Peter Jackson |
|
|
|
fehler
Starting Member
15 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2006 : 15:15:29
|
Disagreements are great, but you need to back up your opinions. I think there are too many locations/Acts in the first movie, so Darkenwood should be cut/trimmed to just a spot for escape, not the enchanted mystery forest it is in the book. I don't see how it's enchantments add to the story or the characters, and would rather see money and minutes spent bringing Solace, Xak Tsaroth, Qualinost, and Pax Tharkas to life.
The sea elves are important, but only in passing. They explain how the heros survived the blood sea, and gives them a choice to make: escape the horrors of the war into the easy life underwater, abandoning their friends, or return to the surface and face the trials. Its a good place to start the third movie, although I'd hate to end the second movie with the plunge. Seems too much like a cliffhanger, and I've never liked those in movies. |
|
|
|
JupiterPrime
Junior Member
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2006 : 15:19:33
|
Well not to get off the topic of what should be left out, but conversely it begs the question sof what shoud be put in...between teh first and second book, the entire venture to Icewall Castle and the finding of a dragon orb, along with elsewhere, the search for, and finding of the Hammer of Kharas which all heppened "off camera"
Somewhat integral scenes I would say, and which could be incorporated in small "historical-intros" ala LOTR movies which began each with a brief take on certain aspects of the lesser know points of the story
That is one way where the whole destruction of Solace and dismembering of Theros and the giving of the Silver arm could be executed and effectively cut from the normal running film, while still included to not lose aspect of those elements and confuse people when they are presented with them.
Its either that or they will need to find a slew of Dragon saddles and lances in pristine condition when Tasslehoff makes an unbeknownst discovery in the Dragon Mountain |
|
|
|
JupiterPrime
Junior Member
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2006 : 15:27:10
|
and I agree - the whole Forrestmaster/Darken Wood scene could go, even if it means we lose the foreshadowing of Sturm's future death, which isnt needed for DoAT and whos connection will be lost by the time they release DoWN, when it actually happens
I do however disagree with cutting out Elistan - he's going to be Paladine's High preist for crying out loud - he must at least be cameo'ed properly to set it in stone in the ENITRE storyline - but the whole Green Gemstone man thing I always felt was just a throw-in becasue they couldnt figure out how to cause the fall of the Temple in Neraka in DoSD - like they really needed to - but if they are going to use that facet for future installements, they better incorporate it properly somewhere in the story |
|
|
|
Merced
Starting Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2006 : 16:02:46
|
comments first. Problem with cutting out return to solace is thats where they pick up Tika(They could probably be captured and put in a cage with her where she tells of the destruction of solace). Problem with no darkenwood is you lose an opportunity to show Raistlins innate power, although I agree that it could be trimmed without the meal. Elistan in important to continue the story especially since he forms the other side of the threesome that Tanis has trouble dealing with for Laurana's time.
Things to cut...
songs, I dont want a musical. There are lots of travel scenes on the road that could be cut. Its hard from a fan standpoint cause I want to see lots of little ones, that would make a crappy movie thou. Sesten is the gully dwarf that free's them from the cage after the fireball. Secondary characters like eben could be cut. |
|
|
|
tonkatough
Member
Australia
561 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2006 : 09:04:30
|
fehler, how can you not like cliffhangers? I'm a huge fan and a trilogy just isn't a trilogy with out a great cliff hanger that leaves the hero doomed in a major, life threatening crisis. It gets you pumped and excited for the next movie. Cliffhangers are essential in a trilogy cause they get you involved straight away in the next chapter of the trilogy.
How about the cliffhanger in Test Of The Twins where Tasslehoff is pulverized by the fiery mountain that is dropped on the city of Istar. That is the best Cliffhanger in the history of Cliffhangers.
tonkatough |
|
|
|
fehler
Starting Member
15 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2006 : 15:18:27
|
Can you name one good movie that ended with a cliffhanger?
Cliffhangers work for TV and books, but not for movies. First, its a matter of time: For books, readers usually have access to the next volume right after reading the cliffhanger. On TV, it's a three month wait. For movies, the wait between the hanger and the conclusion is going to be a year, at the earliest. With this much time between, it's going to take some back story to catch the viewers back up, and I'd rather not have to waste minutes doing that.
Plus, a trilogy isn't a single story, its a collection of three seperate stories joined together loosly by an overarching plot resolved at the end of the third story. If the middle story doesn't "conclude", its poorly written.
At the end of Empire Strikes Back, the heros escaped, but Han was seperated from the pack. Not a cliffhanger, the movie didn't end with Luke dangling underneath Cloud City. Same with Fellowship of the Rings, heros seperated, but all seperatly determined to continue their missions.
In this sense, DoWN should end with Tanis making the tough decision to leave Istar and return to the war, Caramon with Tika coming to the hard realization that Raistlin doesn't need him anymore while Laurana, Tas, and Flint bury Sturm in a ritual full of knightly pomp and pagentry. All plots for this book concluded. |
|
|
|
JupiterPrime
Junior Member
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2006 : 20:05:36
|
hmmm, by that reckonning, then all of Dragon lance really becomes a story of the Twins starting with Soulforge, and all of "Chronicles" really becomes a middle story between the breakup of the fellowship of friends during their "5 year mission", to try and find out what's going on with the coming of dragons and dragon armies and return to Solace at the beginning of DoAT....
....and ends with "Legends" series with Kitiara's dragon army remnants shattered, and the twin's resolving their issues - everything else being gravy.
If Im not mistaken, this whole dragonlance genre started out simply as a short story about Raistlin's test, and just evolved into what it is now, just from that one story |
Edited by - JupiterPrime on 27 Jul 2006 20:09:33 |
|
|
|
JupiterPrime
Junior Member
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2006 : 20:07:19
|
back on topic,
it would appear that they are going to keep the Darken Wood / Forrestmaster sequence, as they have already cast someone for the voice of the Forrestmaster. Personally I felt that entire sequence could have been left out of DoAT |
|
|
|
fehler
Starting Member
15 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2006 : 03:39:26
|
Yes, the topic:
I'd cut the scene in the tomb of Kith Kanan down. It's enough for them to sneak in, see the tombs of elves, dwarves, and humans, and work their way up to the prisoners (Pax Tharkas was built as a monument to peace. Tas can complain/wonder why there's no tomb here for Kender) But the whole thing where Kith Kanan "gives" a sword to Tanis doesn't make much sense. |
|
|
|
tonkatough
Member
Australia
561 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2006 : 06:35:46
|
Don't forget the giant slug. Might as well cut that out too. Have to agree with the Kith Kanan sword. I don't recall it playing a significant role in the story so then you don't need it.
Fehler, I was just about to respond to your "Can you name one good movie that ended with a cliffhanger?" response and use Empire Strikes Back as example, but then you made a very valid point and left me sitting here with my arms crossed muttering to myself. 
tonkatough |
|
|
|
fehler
Starting Member
15 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2006 : 14:51:32
|
Now the slug was important: It was Laurana's first combat, and her fear and revulsion from it helped her determination and paved the way to her first victory at Icewall, to her eventual rise as the Golden General. Something "similar" to it should occur, to make her realize that this isn't a little picnic out with her brother and sweetie, and she needs to stop being the teen queen.
And another thing: Dragons breathe fire. Not lightning, not acid, not frost, just fire. Only gamers think otherwise, and the movie shouldn't try to confuse the casual fan by keeping strict to D+D conventions. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
What would you cut
